How to win back lost customers: Proven strategies for re-engagement

How to win back lost customers: Proven strategies for re-engagement

[00:00:00] 

Introduction

[00:00:00] David Barnard: All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this webinar. I hate the word webinar, but that’s what it is. Welcome to this webinar. We have two awesome guests. We’ll get to intros in a sec, but Hannah and Steve are joining us today. Um, We’re talking about how to win back last loss customers, and not just going to talk about how to win them back, but how to prevent them from, uh, leaving in the first place, um, why they leave, uh, all, all those sorts of topics related to, to, to win backs.

[00:00:33] So a few housekeeping notes as we get started, um, if you have questions during the event, I’m a terrible host. I can’t multitask and like Steve’s awesome at this. I was joking before that Steve should just host this one. Uh, I, I don’t do a good job of like watching the chat while trying to like. Think through the topics and, and carry a conversation.

[00:00:54] So there’s going to be, there’s a questions tab in, um, this, [00:01:00] uh, webinar platform. So put your question there. And then if you see a question that you really want answered, upload it. And at the end, we are going to take like 10 to 15 minutes to answer questions. And we’ll do in the order of the most votes.

[00:01:14] So vote for the questions you most want answered. Put your question in there, voted up, and at the end we will take Q and A, but we probably won’t stop during, unless Steve and Hannah, unless there’s like a really relevant question and you see it. I know y’all are better at watching the chat. So if you see a question and want to answer it in, in the conversation, that’s fine too.

[00:01:34] Um, we’re shooting for an hour, but we may go a little over, especially with the Q and A. Um, and yeah, with, with that out of the way, I wanted to introduce myself. I think a lot of, you know, who I am at this point. I host a sub club podcast. Hopefully you’re listening to the sub club podcast. If not check it out at sub club.

[00:01:51] com. And I do all that as part of my job at revenue cat and revenue cat is a subscription app platform with a [00:02:00] mission to help developers make more money. And I’ll drop a little hint in here. Um, one of the things Steve is talking about, I didn’t even tell Steve this before, but one of the things in Steve’s slides that Steve is talking about revenue cats about to drop a product that makes it like dead simple, like minutes to create.

[00:02:19] The things that Steve talks about. So I won’t, I won’t go any, any further. The announcement will be soon. We’ll, we’ll be in beta very soon with some of this. Um, but for all the things that we talk about, you know, revenue cat, we, and my colleagues are going to be watching this and we, you know, pay really close attention to what’s going on in industry and try and build the tools to help developers make more money.

[00:02:39] Um, so without further ado, I’d love for the two of you to introduce yourself. So Hannah, why don’t you go first? 

[00:02:46] Hannah Parvaz: Of course. Thank you so much, David. I’m Hannah, Hannah Parvez. Uh, don’t know why I said that like James Bond, but I’m Hannah. I’ve been working in mobile for about. 12 years now, usually for the last, well, for the first 10 years of [00:03:00] that, I was in house.

[00:03:00] I was head of growth four times with different companies. I scaled them up from not being on the app store to having over a million, millions of users. I started my company about two years ago now called Aperture, where we work with companies on all stages of the funnel from awareness to deep retention.

[00:03:16] And I’ll pass over to Steve. All right. Give 

[00:03:19] Steve P. Young: you the short version. Been in the app space since 2011. And then started a podcast in 2013 to learn from my heroes, to see if I can turn this little side business, taught myself how to code in 2011, turn this little side business into a full time business. And so I’ve interviewed the co founder Shazam, David and I had known each other for years as well.

[00:03:39] And through that built an audience who then started coming to me for marketing help at the time I didn’t know anything about app marketing, but took the leap in 2014 to start this company. And so now we work with some of the biggest brands in the world and with, and also some of the tiniest startups in the world.

[00:03:54] And we help them with primarily ASO conversion rate optimization, some UA as [00:04:00] well, and Apple search ads too. So, but yeah, we’ve got a presence on YouTube as well. 

[00:04:05] Hannah Parvaz: 50K followers. so 

[00:04:07] Steve P. Young: much. And 

[00:04:08] Hannah Parvaz: Hannah, 

[00:04:10] Steve P. Young: if you’re keeping score, you know, David, I think that’s a point cause we’re going to cover something from my slides, Anna.

[00:04:15] So I don’t know if you can score. I’m winning right now. All right. 

[00:04:23] David Barnard: Um, we do have a quick. Poll as we’re getting started. And so I believe the poll has already gone live. And the question is, are you running any dedicated win back campaigns yourself? Uh, I’m going to answer no, uh, Hannah and, and Steve, feel free to vote, uh, as well.

[00:04:42] Um, I’m actually working on one of the techniques and I’ll, I’ll talk about it now in my side project app, I’m working on one of the techniques we’re going to discuss today. And so I’ll kind of jump in and tell you what I’m doing. Uh, later. But it looks like we’re, we’re having some of those, uh, results come in, still kind of [00:05:00] streaming in.

[00:05:01] Um, 

When did you start your first win-back campaign?

[00:05:03] David Barnard: Steve, when did you start your first win 

[00:05:05] Steve P. Young: back campaigns? So we, and this will, I’m adding them to the slides, David, at the end, but we’re testing out a new way of discounting. That I’ll tee up. And if you want me to go into it now, I can, but we’re, we’re testing out a new way of discounting and we’re trying to see the early data says this way is performing a little bit better right now, it’s, it’s still a little bit too early, but why not let the cat out of the bag?

[00:05:30] David Barnard: Yeah. We’ll, we’ll dive deeper into that in the slides. Uh, I was curious when you ran your first. Like, so, so you’ve been in the app business since 2011. When did, so, so I’ve been in the app business since 20, since 2009 and the very, and this month when we release this update to my weather app will be the first time I’ve done any form of win back.

[00:05:51] So 16 years in,

[00:05:57] Steve P. Young: No, it’s funny. Cause we, we, you know, we’ve [00:06:00] both been doing this, but like, you’ve been able to do more of the indie side. Whereas I’ve been helping others. And so from helping others pretty soon, like, I don’t know when it was, but like, I would say a few years ago, but for me personally, yeah, like very recently, like a couple of months ago.

[00:06:14] David Barnard: And then how about you, Hannah? When did you first start working out? I guess in house, right? Yeah, 

[00:06:18] Hannah Parvaz: I was in house. So like ever since the first. weeks, I began doing, working in apps. I was thinking about how can I make sure that people are continuing to come back. CRM was like a huge part of the flow actually at my first company.

[00:06:33] So probably 2013, 2014, when I was running, running growth there, you know, we, it was before there were push notification systems. You know, it was SMSs in a kind of programmatic way. I worked with my developers to build JSON scripts so that I could send out push notifications to people to try and win people back.

[00:06:55] You know, there was no scheduling. It was like, I’m going to do this campaign to get people [00:07:00] to come back, you know, and it was a free product to use, you know, free to download. It was a ticketing app, but. We did focus a lot on, you know, first talking to customers and then understanding then I refined a lot of my skills at this company to throw pizza parties, to get people to come back, like get people to, you know, come down, invite their friends, you know, so there were wind back, but also acquisition, but then from a kind of digital perspective, running wind back.

[00:07:29] Ads, you know, trying to retarget existing customers so that they could come back because there was relevant content for them. CRM was a huge, huge part of that. And then also the things that we were doing in the app, we were building functionality for that from kind of the very early stages. And I was really lucky to work with such an amazing product team at that company as well.

[00:07:48] Uh, that was very cool. 

[00:07:51] David Barnard: Yeah. So, uh, over a decade of experience for you, probably. Five plus years for Steve and like, uh, negative, [00:08:00] uh, 30 days for me. Um, this will be a great conversation. I’ve been talking to a lot of people about win back campaigns. I just hadn’t done it myself. So let’s check in on the poll and see where we’re at.

[00:08:11] Um, Wow. Yeah. I mean, this is very relevant. So a lot of folks are like me. Um, uh, 75 percent of attendees are not running dedicated win back campaigns. Well, you are in the right place. You’re gonna be like me. And in the next 30 to 60 days, try one of these techniques because it can make a massive impact.

[00:08:32] Now that’s what we’re going to talk about today. It’s like what a huge impact they can have. Um, yeah. All right. 

What is a win-back campaign?

[00:08:38] David Barnard: So I did want to kick things off, um, with, with kind of the, the, the broad question, like we, a lot of folks throw this around, uh, the term win back, but, but I wanted to start with like, what is a win back and you kind of alluded to it, Hannah, so why don’t we start with you?

[00:08:54] Uh, what does it mean to do a win back? 

[00:08:58] Hannah Parvaz: Thank you. Um, Steve can [00:09:00] fill in anything I miss, but a win back campaign really is Any kind of effort that you do to regain your lost customers. So, you know, someone will have bought your product, you know, they might be churning or maybe they’ve downloaded your app, you know, they’ve taken out a trial.

[00:09:15] They’ve canceled what happens then, you know, how do we get them to come back? How do we. You know, with internal triggers, you know, they might have their own internal triggers that they see out and about that reminds them about your product, but probably not whenever they’ve just downloaded and engaged with it, once, perhaps, how do we get them to come back?

[00:09:35] So that can be through email. That can be through features inside the product, push notifications, ads, all of these different things. So we’re going to break down some of these different areas and show you some examples today as well. 

[00:09:47] Steve P. Young: Hey, 

[00:09:48] David Barnard: why don’t 

[00:09:48] Steve P. Young: you fill in some of your thoughts on this too. But I think the easiest win back and I agree with Hannah, like any Download and those who didn’t buy would be the easiest win back.

[00:09:58] And that’s the biggest pool [00:10:00] that you’re going to get. And then, and I like, and I love you guys’s feedback on this, but the second most important segment or cohort that I would say is people who activated as trial and then. Canceled. That would be the, the hardest ones I feel like are the ones that. I’ve already canceled the trial.

[00:10:17] Like, I think you have that seven day window to try to get back. But what we’ve seen from our efforts is the people who have already canceled. It’s a lot harder to get them back into your funnel than the ones that are even the ones that download your app, but never paid you, those are easier to win back versus the ones that have.

[00:10:34] Ultimately cancel the trial. 

[00:10:36] Hannah Parvaz: Yeah. And it gets increasingly harder as well. You know, if someone canceled three months ago, that’s going to be harder again than someone that canceled five days ago because you’re falling out of their mind, you know, and we need to get back into people’s minds and get back into their, you know, what they’re talking about back into their psyche.

[00:10:54] David Barnard: Yeah. And then I think, um, You know, we were talking about win back, [00:11:00] specifically of winning them back to purchase. And I think, uh, I mean, none of the terminology in our industry needs to have like an exact specific definition. Like this is, this is the only thing we mean when we say win back. But I also even think broadly about win back is like winning people back to your app.

[00:11:19] I mean, generally when people say win back, they’re talking about like winning back to. A paying subscriber or a paying user somehow. Um, but then there’s also like winning them back to an engaged free user as well for a freemium app. And so I think it all kind of overlaps. Like you, you want to win back.

[00:11:38] People who’ve turned from using the free app and hopefully get them to pay, but you also just want to win them back to like being a, a, uh, a user again. And so I think the terminology kind of blends all generally win back would be more specific to winning back. To being a paid subscriber. But I think it kind of all blends together as well.

[00:11:58] Um, 

What are the reasons why people leave in the first place?

[00:11:59] David Barnard: the next kind of [00:12:00] step in, in thinking through win backs is to understand why people are leaving. So I wanted to kick that off with you, Steve, and kind of like, what are the reasons people leave? And then, but more importantly, it’s like, how do you go about understanding those reasons to then design better win back campaigns?

[00:12:19] Steve P. Young: You know, I think the number one reason is going to be probably price. Versus anything else, and then understanding your features to, so the easiest thing you can do, and I see a lot of questions coming in too, is. Just add some chat. Like I had somebody on the podcast, Betcher, and he talked about having chat.

[00:12:36] And I was like, dude, I do that on my website, like having some online chat, live chat. You can get, you can use chris. chat for free integrated in your app to understand and provide the support for your early users, because they’re, if they don’t understand anything, they probably want, they download your app.

[00:12:52] So it’s a warm lead. They probably want some support. And so I’ve gotten some great insights from people who are just chatting with online. And there’s a. [00:13:00] An app on your phone. So it’s like a text message that they can send that. That’s something that you can do. Obviously. Yeah, that’s the two that I’ve heard people not paying you is essentially price and just not understanding the value of the app.

[00:13:14] And 

[00:13:17] David Barnard: how about you? What are some of the ways you’ve discovered, uh, the reasons behind churn? 

[00:13:23] Hannah Parvaz: Steve said price and that’s completely true. You know, price is usually kind of the leading thing that people say in any kind of multiple choice survey, but we want to drill down always into price as well, you know, and price is usually an indicator of, I’m not getting value.

[00:13:40] You know, people will pay that same price. For something else, that same valuation, they’ll pay without thinking on something else. You know, I’ve gone through so many customer conversations where someone has told me, you know, I don’t pay for any subscriptions. And I asked them, you know, well, what about Netflix?

[00:13:59] What about, [00:14:00] and they don’t even perceive those to be subscriptions. A lot of the time they just don’t. And what you want to do is get your product to that point where it’s a utility. They don’t even think about it. Like it’s a subscription. Anyway, to get to understanding why that is, really, we start with talking to people and just like Steve said, you know, if you can build a chat in, that’s amazing.

[00:14:20] If you can get on the phone with them and like, really understand inside their minds, what were they expecting? You know, what did they actually see when they came to your product? How do those, how does their expectations align with reality? And then starting to kind of build those things in, um, these are kind of the main ways that we get started, but anything that can be quantitative as well, building in cancellation flows, anything like this will, will help cancellation flows that have a survey as a part of it.

[00:14:48] I mean, anything like this will help you kind of get a really good Where to get started and, and where to focus. 

[00:14:57] David Barnard: Yeah, that’s great. And, um, [00:15:00] one thing to keep in mind too, especially, you know, it seems like based on the poll that, you know, a lot of this audience has made me more like me, like you haven’t ever run a windbag campaign, so you probably aren’t doing a ton of like user research and things like that.

[00:15:13] Um, I just saw an article, uh, I, I wish I. Could remember off the top of my head who published it. I think I just saw it on Twitter yesterday and that the headline was basically like, don’t, don’t run a beta. And, and the, the thrust of the meaning behind that was not like, don’t beta test your app, but it was like, don’t rely too heavily on beta testers for feedback.

[00:15:37] And the point being when you do. This kind of research. And we try and understand, you know, what’s landing in the product. What’s not landing. Why are people canceling? Why are not canceling? Like you don’t ask your mom, right? Like she’s going to subscribe to your app no matter what, like you don’t ask, you know, you don’t set up a beta with a bunch of your like close friends and then ask your close [00:16:00] friends, like how much value do you place on this app?

[00:16:02] Like, it’s a very skewed perspective. So when you’re, when you’re doing the user research, when you’re chatting with users. Um, you should also like, try and have some level of context for like, who you’re talking to and making sure that they’re not, that they are kind of your ideal customer and you’re not kind of chasing rabbits, like one of the, the toughest things to do.

[00:16:22] And I fall in this trap all the time. It’s like, I’m a power user of my app. And so the, the things I care about in a weather app are very different than like the average person who’s willing to pay. And so when you’re getting this kind of feedback. On price on, um, the features on, you know, product market fit and things like that, make sure you’re getting it from, from the people who are willing to pay the people who are your ideal customer profile, not your like friends, not your kind of like, you know, Uber terminally online, uh, friends who are beta testing for you.

[00:16:55] Um, so that’s kind of an important caveat when, when getting that, when doing that kind of [00:17:00] research is to really understand that audience. 

[00:17:02] Hannah Parvaz: And I actually.

[00:17:07] I actually tend to speak to everyone at all stages of the funnel, but it really depends on which area are we trying to focus on and what problems are we trying to solve. So, you know, Steve was saying before, you know, there are, we People at all different stages. There might be the people that have just installed but not purchased.

[00:17:25] There’s people who’ve taken out a trial and they’re in their trial period. There’s people who’ve cancelled their trial and they’re even more difficult. So it depends which stage that you’re focusing on to try and get that insight. People who have just downloaded and not done anything else are going to have different Things to say to you, they’re going to have different reasons.

[00:17:41] They’re going to have different motives. They’re going to have different expectations. And so whenever we’re talking to customers, we talk to them a lot on the phone, we just make a spreadsheet. And one of the dimensions we include is where are they in their, in their funnel? You know, are they, they’ve never activated their soft, active, they’re hard, active, they’re subscribed, but canceled.

[00:17:59] And then [00:18:00] we get to be able to start grouping all of our learnings and then pulling kind of quantitative deep. Insights from our qualitative conversations, I would say the other thing that we always make sure that we do as well is not incentivize people up front. It’s harder as you get higher up the funnel, actually, uh, it’s like the opposite Difficulty, you know, it’s much harder to get someone who’s just downloaded and never done anything to get on the phone with you Uh, but the people who have cancelled even though they’re going to be harder to win back are much More likely to come on the phone with you But I tend not to kind of give an incentive up front because you get into this i’m asking my mom situation I’m working with a company at the moment who have i’m not joking being in You Research mode for over five years before launching their digital product.

[00:18:49] And that’s kind of different than anything I’ve ever experienced before, you know, but it’s, it’s really interesting to see how they’ve done it. But again, you know, in a paid [00:19:00] beta test, closed beta, you know, I’m telling them over and over again, these are not, you know, reflections of reality. These are still assumptions and you’re just validating your own assumptions almost by doing it in this way.

[00:19:13] So the next stage is. Get that out, you know, get it into the hands of as many people as possible, and then start looking at what is that performance so that you can start to identify where are our biggest opportunities. 

[00:19:24] Steve P. Young: Yeah, that’s fantastic. Steve, you had a follow up too. No, I was going to say something along the same lines, because I know Hannah is very much pro qualitative.

[00:19:31] Feedback too. And I think that’s where you have to figure out, like, what is the aha moment of your app? Like, what is the main thing that you want people to experience? Get there really, really quick. Cause a lot of times I even see clients where they’re buried and sometimes I’ll just show a lot of times I like to say here, here’s my app, use it right.

[00:19:49] And then they, when they. Have that sort of feedback, like, Oh, that’s cool. That’s what, that’s what you’re looking for. And how do you get to that quicker would help with [00:20:00] converting more of the people too. 

[00:20:01] David Barnard: Yeah, very cool. Um, all right. 

Winback strategies and tactics

[00:20:05] David Barnard: So the next phase, um, I want to dive into actual like. Strategies and tactics.

[00:20:12] And so I know both of you prepared some slides. So I want to go ahead and dive into those slides now. So, uh, Hannah, we’ll kick it off with you to talk about, like, very specifically. Once you start to understand some of those reasons, once you have an idea, once you have some subscribers to win back, um, what is it practically look like to implement these and what are some strategies that, that, that folks on this webinar can actually go test, you know, next.

[00:20:40] Week next month. Um, and a lot of these aren’t that hard to do, so just try it. Uh, I’m one, one other, one last caveat, um, that I will say is, you know, when you’re, when you’re just starting out and you only have, you know, hundreds of subscribers, the, you know, Winbax, you know, breaking double [00:21:00] digits on Winbax is, is like industry, like you’re going to be doing amazing to like get 10, 20%.

[00:21:06] Um, that’s like incredible numbers. And so if you’ve got. You know, 300 subscribers, just keep in mind, you’re not going to like get to 600, um, by reactivating people who’ve turned from your app. So keep, keep that in mind. And, and maybe not everybody jump to do this in the next 30 days. Um, but I think some of Steve’s strategies that we’ll get to on like winning back people who’ve started a free trial and people who’ve abandoned their car, um, that stuff that they can have a more direct and.

[00:21:37] Quick impact. Um, so those are maybe the strategies to start with, but let’s, uh, go to, to some of Hannah’s tactics. 

[00:21:45] Hannah Parvaz: Awesome. Yeah. So I wanted to share with everyone, just a few really simple things that you can do to just get started. You know, you don’t need any kind of complicated setup to do any of the things on the next few slides.

[00:21:59] [00:22:00] These are really, really simple. You don’t need a kind of advanced team. You don’t need much. Anything to get started with any of these. So since 75 percent of people haven’t ever done any of these, you know, these are really good places to start. So over the, I also wanted to share a metric, which was just to what David said, you know, single digits, if you’re not kind of running any windbacks or anything like that at the moment, single digits are exactly what we’d be expecting, you’re going to have this natural kind of wind back anyway.

[00:22:32] And when I was at this company, uh, which has an audio journalism Before we had started running any Winback campaigns, before we’d been doing any kind of Winback things, our Winback rate was 6%. And we didn’t know that that was our Winback rate either. Uh, we went to a benchmarking session. We had never thought about our Winbacks at this company for subscriptions, you know, as a rate or anything like that.

[00:22:57] And we went to a benchmarking session with [00:23:00] our dear friends at Apple and they were telling us and showing us, you know, What’s our other products performing like in your peer group? And we found out that the best performing one in our peer group was winning back at a 35 percent rate. So we understood to now we’re at 6%, they’re at 35%.

[00:23:20] So that then was identified as a really big opportunity for us. You know, we could 600 percent essentially. Increase our rate, uh, in a realistic way. And so we started then experimenting a lot with windbacks and all of these different things are experiments. You know, you’re not going to necessarily have every single thing work, but these are some best practices and, you know, you’re going to have to put your own flair on them.

[00:23:46] So this first one here is basically the easiest way to identify with a free trial. If someone has canceled, you know, the way in which we do that in a kind of Cody data way is by looking at the billing status. [00:24:00] So your billing status changes, and this is how you’re able to represent that in your product.

[00:24:05] So what we did here in the product was if anyone who was on a trial, their billing status changed, we showed them a discount code. In their app, you know, they were still coming back. We showed them that they would get 30 percent off if they would restart or reactivate. And this taps just to basically go into the double, you know, double click Apple screen modal thingy.

[00:24:29] And then I work in tech and, um, you know, that would then pop up. You would then restart automatically. And when it auto renewed into your payment, which you hadn’t even paid at this point, it would be with 30 percent discount. And so this is a super simple way to get started. We just added a very simple banner at the bottom.

[00:24:48] Um But then we saw such success with this that then we started rolling out similar banners for different stages, you know We then you know, if someone had Come into the product. They [00:25:00] hadn’t taken out a trial. We found out that our, we found out what our activation point was. You know, you had to listen to a certain amount of stories to become activated.

[00:25:08] That was your aha moment. So we found, you know, when someone has got to that point, you know, let’s give them a discount, you know, they’re warmed up now. They’re going to get locked soon. They’re not going to have any free access anymore. So. Now let’s start kind of pushing them towards that free trial, towards that subscription.

[00:25:23] You can experiment in many different ways with a little banner like this, or you can show it through a modal or something like this as well. 

[00:25:29] Steve P. Young: I like that. I think, Hannah, I don’t know if you agree, but there’s a question about when is the best time to do a win back offer. And I almost feel like almost immediately, right?

[00:25:37] Like, I don’t know when yours are showing this billing status, but if you haven’t paid, like show them immediately. 

[00:25:42] Hannah Parvaz: Yeah. Yeah. All the time throughout the whole funnel, you should be thinking, About how, how can I retain and how can I win these people back? You know, it’s everything that we do for those kind of pop ups.

[00:25:56] I don’t know if you’ve ever downloaded everyone watching the app headway. [00:26:00] If you haven’t, it’s a very interesting flow and they have just continuous discount offers, discount offers, discount offers. You, you close one, you get another one. They’re all win back. You know, in a way they’re just trying to get you to take one of these off and, you know, take, like, take them up on one of these offers.

[00:26:17] It will be 80 percent off. Oh, you’ve missed it. 30 percent off. Oh, and now it’s 50 off or whatever. Like they just constantly changing it so that that’s why they’ve got such an incredible conversion because they’re just constantly experimenting with this. But yeah, right from the very beginning. 

[00:26:33] Steve P. Young: I have the visuals.

[00:26:33] If you want to give it a try. 

[00:26:36] Hannah Parvaz: Go on. Yeah, 

[00:26:37] Steve P. Young: we, we can uh, we can skip to your slides. 

[00:26:39] Let’s do it. 

[00:26:41] Steve P. Young: No, I don’t, here I can just share my screen ’cause I don’t have the

[00:26:48] Hey 

[00:26:48] David Barnard: guys. 

[00:26:48] Uh, 

[00:26:51] David Barnard: alright, love it. Oh, nice . Yeah. Pretty big 

[00:26:54] Steve P. Young: onboarding and then it might have changed things. This is from 2022. Yeah, 23. But anyways, [00:27:00] this is what, Anna, go ahead Anna. Well, 

[00:27:02] Hannah Parvaz: no, no, no, please. So this 

[00:27:03] Steve P. Young: is the paywall, the onboarding paywall that they have right here. And then I hit view all plans so you can see all the plans.

[00:27:09] When you hit X, which because most people will hit X, they have a little gift for you. And this is what Hannah was talking about with the 50 percent off. And this is what I really like too. And on second open and every open afterwards, this is like, Aggressive, right? Like I really like it. I had Yeva on our podcast and she talked about that.

[00:27:27] And she’s, she said, look, if you’re not discounting, you’re leaving money on the table. And so one of my favorite things is this reading flow. I should probably not give away the entire flow at once, but anyways, so like most content is locked. And one of the things that we’ve seen good success on is locking up more content.

[00:27:43] A friend of mine has a crossword app and. I was like, dude, you’re giving away a lot for free. And so we locked up more content and with headway, they have one free daily read, and that’s about it. And then eventually if you pick a book, that’s locked, you hit, listen or read, you get this [00:28:00] paywall, you hit view other plans.

[00:28:02] You can see the plans here. You hit X, they like, wait up, we have a free offer for you. You want 70 percent off and you know, these are, these are the type of campaigns that I like because they’ve obviously shown intent. And so this is an easier win back. Like for me, I feel like win back is very, very hard.

[00:28:18] So we’re already climbing a steep mountain and you want to find the gaps that are easier to convert. And this is one of these flows where I feel like this is easier to convert. Like they, they’ve shown intent. 

[00:28:30] David Barnard: Yeah. Yeah, and if we’re going by stage, I do think this is probably the, um, the, the, the most effective place.

[00:28:41] And then I was talking earlier, like this is where, where I’m actually working in my weather app. We have a hard pay wall. And so my like first, first, Foray into windbacks is that when somebody hits cancel and we’re going to talk about cart abandonment, but this is essentially a cart abandonment. It’s like, they’re hitting X on a paywall.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] Um, so, so what we’re doing is like, it’s a, it’s a hard paywall and you have to start a free trial. But there’s a lot of people who, when they see that payment screen, they’re just going to hit the X and like, get out of that payment screen. So baby step. And again, this is like where you probably have the most leverage.

[00:29:17] So like. Get people back is in that like initial conversion moment. So either offering a discount or in our case, what we’re doing is we’re just offering seven days, completely free. It’s like, just, just use the app. So, you know, starting a free trial, no automatic conversion. A lot of people don’t like the automatic conversion.

[00:29:33] All the more and more people are smart with that. They’ll start the free trial and then like. Literally seconds later, you’ll see the event, uh, in, in, we, in revenue cats, there’s like a stream of events. And so you can see like started free trial and then like literally seconds later, like not even a minute has passed and they’ve left the app, turned off the free trial and then come back to the, um, so that’s a great place to.

[00:29:55] In these like cart abandonment moments is a great place to do it Um, but I did want to jump [00:30:00] back to your slides hannah so so and then we’ll kind of get back to more cart abandonment sessions, but um, let’s get back to kind of like the Crm flows and maybe the kind of deeper, you know, once they’ve already been a subscriber, uh type flow It looks like my screen’s not sharing for some reason.

[00:30:22] Hannah Parvaz: I think it got hijacked. 

[00:30:23] David Barnard: Got hijacked by Steve. Well, why don’t you, why don’t you take over again? The, uh, CRM flows. So why don’t you just jump on that while it’s loading? 

[00:30:37] Hannah Parvaz: I think it’s all, you know, it’s all linked. David just said. In his own app, you know, he’s seeing that as soon as someone takes out a trial, everyone cancels now, you know, the most kind of cancellations that you’re going to see in a spike is just after someone has taken out that trial.

[00:30:52] And then the next most is going to be when Apple send out the reminder email. So these are the two areas that you want to be kind of. Aware of. [00:31:00] So as soon as someone’s canceling, you’re going to be able to show them that little banner from the previous slide in their app, you know, automatically you’re going to have basically seven days worth of showing them this, you know, that’s a lot of opportunity coupled with push notifications, coupled with recommendations, emails, and things like this to get them coming back.

[00:31:18] This can be really good. So to get to the next one, this was an email that went out in January for one of our apps. And what we saw was, you know, taking advantage of January, you know, January is a huge time where people reflect, where people are starting new hobbies, uh, trying to do self improvement. And this is for an app called mindful mamas, which is an amazing app, which helps mothers with postpartum depression and all stages of motherhood.

[00:31:43] So what we did with those guys was we just sent out, you know, general emails with a last chance discount. So it was a forever. Discount, you know, we did forever and what we saw was amazing uplift here. So this is just a really kind of simple way to send something [00:32:00] out with high design. So I want to send you, show you the next example as well.

[00:32:04] Steve P. Young: David left. So I’m gonna take over the host. We 

[00:32:07] Hannah Parvaz: got 

[00:32:07] Steve P. Young: a question here, Hannah, do you think because it’s heavy on the discount, do you think that devalue? Your, your product. 

[00:32:18] Hannah Parvaz: I don’t think it does if it’s executed in the right way, you know, and it really depends on how you’re going to be, how you’re, how you’re building your brand and how you’re communicating, but a discount done in the right way, positioned in the right way, doesn’t devalue your brand with another product that I worked on, uh, we launched with a discounted off, uh, subscription.

[00:32:38] So we basically started with a founder offer where it was 19 or it was 9 99 per year. And we positioned that as a founder offer, you know, it’s 90 percent off. And this was the messaging about it the whole time. We then used this as an opportunity to gradually increase price. As we increased price, we saw a decrease in conversion, but every single time it came back [00:33:00] up.

[00:33:00] And so we used all of these as opportunities to win people back. You know, this is your last chance to convert. You’ve got 24 hours to get a 9. 99 subscription. Then it went up to 19, then 29. 99. And then, you know, it just kept increasing in price. And we every single time managed to boost up our conversion back to pre.

[00:33:17] Like back to our kind of discount levels, but you know, I think it’s totally fine Uh, you also have to balance that with would I rather send out a discount or would I rather never acquire this customer? You know what’s better for your brand? So on to the next one. Um, this is just a I wanted to show you that You don’t need to do heavy design here You can just use something super simple.

[00:33:40] And this email here had a 5 percent redemption, right? So 5 percent of people who opened this email took out that offer, which was really high. Actually, uh, it was, uh, again, I think a 30 percent discount, but what I did here was I experimented a lot with. First different valuations and then different [00:34:00] asks and what I saw was in this email here I’m asking that for them to help us out for by leaving a review by sharing but I experimented with Trying out just offering them a discount or asking them for help and then offering a discount And what we saw whenever we asked for help is that no one helped us But everyone took the discount because they felt they were being like Oh, it’s a secret.

[00:34:21] So, you know, just experiment. It was totally fine that they weren’t like going and posting tweets and things like that about us. But they felt like, Oh, look, I’ve got this secret discount that I needed to do an action to redeem. I don’t even have to do the action. And we spoke to people afterwards and that is how they felt.

[00:34:37] And so, you know, it was just a bit of Jedi mind tricks here, but it had an extremely high redemption rate, um, from this and other similar emails, which have just been text only. You know, it literally says Hannah from Curio. Who that’s from, you know, it was just coming from me coming from my email address and people could respond to me.

[00:34:55] I sent out a series of emails or from myself, you know, on day [00:35:00] three of a trial, I would email as an automated email, every single person asking them for feedback. And if they had used the app versus not use the app, it would be a different email as well. So, you know, just to try and understand from them so that then we could feed back, improve the product and give them discounts kind of manually as well.

[00:35:20] Steve P. Young: And I think you’ve 

[00:35:20] got a score. 

[00:35:21] Steve P. Young: I like that. 

[00:35:23] David Barnard: I love how simple that is as an email and that you highlighted, like you don’t need a whole team, you know, with fancy design. And sometimes it’s like really fancy design stuff actually convert less and just sending a plain text, like, Hey, I’m Hannah and help us out.

[00:35:40] Plain text email, a couple of links, like sometimes those perform better. So it’s nice that you don’t need to necessarily do a bunch of fancy stuff to make this work. 

[00:35:50] Hannah Parvaz: Yeah. And you can test it out in a really, really easy way. You know, you can find a hundred email addresses of your users and then just email them from your own email, you know, just copy and 

[00:35:59] [00:36:00] paste.

[00:36:00] Hannah Parvaz: And that will validate whether or not you should go and build a kind of more complicated flow. You know, this is how we always start, um, doing these things with a small batch test and then rolling them out and expanding it. 

[00:36:12] David Barnard: Although be careful not to get your personal email marked as spam. So be careful with exactly what you do send in those emails.

[00:36:19] So you don’t end up in a spam jail where your regular emails don’t, don’t get delivered. 

[00:36:26] Hannah Parvaz: Exactly. Yeah, I mean, I’m happy if Steve wants to make any comments on these as well, obviously, but otherwise I can go through mine and then we’ll go on to Steve’s beautiful. Yeah, 

[00:36:35] David Barnard: let’s, let’s finish up yours. And then Steve has quite a few slides.

[00:36:38] So we’ll jump to his next. 

[00:36:40] Hannah Parvaz: So the other thing I want to point out for win backs really is. Utilizing your website, you know, obviously everyone here probably is mobile apps, but what we don’t talk about all of the time, although we’re seeing a lot more of it lately, which is really exciting is these kind of web.

[00:36:57] Well, you’ve got several different web flows. You’ve got app to [00:37:00] web, you’ve got web to app, you’ve got app to app, you’ve got web to web, all of these different things happening now. And what we can’t do is really, if you have a subscription in your product, Or you’ve got in app payments in your product that Apple are processing.

[00:37:13] You can’t send in app messages that link out from your app and talk about a discount that you can avail on your website. But what you can do is send emails. So what we do is we send out those emails like the ones on the previous slides and then we optimize our web flow around this. So there’s a lot of benefits to this, you know, you can use Stripe or something similar, Paddle, you know, and these guys will take between one and three percent of your revenue.

[00:37:39] Of your of the sale versus apple are taking between 15 and 30 depending on how much you’re earning. So it’s quite a substantial Change and then on top of that The other benefit is that you’re going to get the money into your account in a couple of days versus a couple of months Which means that you’ve got more working capital to reinvest in other things So these are some super simple [00:38:00] ways to get started.

[00:38:01] Um, do I have one more slide? Okay. This is a really good one as well. Um, so this was a nightlife app actually. And the premise of this product was you would go to a bar and you’d show the app and you’d get a free drink. I don’t drink anymore, but can blame this app. And, um, anyway, what we would find was that if someone went to, you know, we were talking earlier about these aha moments, if someone redeemed two drinks on different nights.

[00:38:32] That was their aha moment. That was when they were activated. So what we would do is we would identify when someone was activated and then we would look at what is their average frequency cycle? So, you know steve might go to get a drink every 40 days and david might go every 30 days So and I might go every 20 days So we’ve all got different frequency cycles here.

[00:38:53] So on day 21, I’m churned, but on day 21, both Steve and David are not churned. So we [00:39:00] would take these people who are coming up to their churning point and then retarget them with ads that literally said there’s a free drink just around the corner from you. You know, this was really effective because it was hyper local But we can also do this and think about this from in lots of different ways, you know retarget with ads another thing that we’ve done with content apps as well is Hacked facebook’s catalog api.

[00:39:21] So facebook have a catalog api, which basically is mostly for ecom products, you know You go and swipe and you see loads and loads of nice shoes or whatever, but what we can do is plug in our content database into there. So when I was working at an audio journalism app, we had lots of content there, lots of journalism that was all narrated.

[00:39:40] They all had pictures, they all had a bio, they all had a blurb, they all had a title, they all had a deep link. After that, I worked at a tech app, so something similar to Headway. And at that company and at both of those companies What we did was we plugged the catalog api into our database so that we could [00:40:00] surface Retargeting ads showing new content, you know showing continuous new content to people which would then deep link into their app and display that piece of content automatically for them and those were very very effective not only at reactivating but also at gaining sales because people would then kind of see this and Be like, that is actually an interesting thing for me.

[00:40:21] I went to read Tony Morrison’s autobiography or whatever, and then they would come through purchase to, to consume basically. Yeah. 

[00:40:31] David Barnard: Cool. Uh, next up, Steve, um, I know you’ve got quite a few slides. We’ve got about 20 minutes left. So, um, we do want to leave a few minutes for, um. Uh, Q and a, uh, but if you want to just, uh, drive the show, Steve and, and share your slides and Hannah and I might interrupt you a little more than we interrupted Hannah, but yeah.

[00:40:55] Steve P. Young: Can you please answer some questions before getting to Steve? All right. I see some other questions. [00:41:00] Yeah. Okay. 

[00:41:03] David Barnard: Let’s wait on the question. So the, 

[00:41:05] Steve P. Young: all right, I’m gonna talk about card abandonment and David, maybe this is where you can do the, your little teaser, because I wonder if you’re talking about specifically, cause I do have slides for the, the cancel thing that you mentioned too.

[00:41:17] Which was something I was going to say for the in person revenue cat in San Francisco, but we can, we can give them a little tease here. So I think this is the, the obvious thing, and this is a guest of mine from Zinio, their magazine app, but they implemented card abandonments. So when you show intent, just like the headway example, you pick the book and then you say, no, that’s a perfect opportunity.

[00:41:40] And what they found was they went from two reminders to three. And a lot of times I feel like we’re like, we don’t want to bug our users. But they saw a huge improvement when they added one more reminder. So they do one hour after card abandonment one day and then one week, and that’s where they saw 13 x improvement in conversions versus [00:42:00] just two reminders.

[00:42:01] So, you know, like for me, I know a lot of questions are about like, when is it too soon? When should you focus on it? I say immediately we have one client that’s doing about 60% of their revenues from the. Onboarding paywall with yearly seven day trial 20. The next best revenue driver is their discounted on the yearly, which is shown on the homepage, just like the headway example as well.

[00:42:25] And that’s 20 percent of their revenues. So it’s a pretty decent amount of revenues coming from a discounted trial because, you know, does that say that most users leave an app within three And then about, 

[00:42:39] Hannah Parvaz: what’s the 

[00:42:40] Steve P. Young: stat? 

[00:42:40] Hannah Parvaz: 77 percent of users will never come back to your app within three days. 

[00:42:45] Steve P. Young: Yeah. 77 percent will, won’t come back to your app.

[00:42:47] I think it was six days, but like, yeah, it won’t come back within six days. And that’s according to adjust. Yeah. And 

[00:42:52] David Barnard: that’s a great place to mention too, Steve. I think the whole, like, we don’t want to bother people. Um, If [00:43:00] 60 plus percent of people are never going to come back to your app anyway, those are the people you want to bug.

[00:43:08] It’s like, yeah, you know, maybe, maybe the, the, you know, the, the active users in your app, you want to be a little more sensitive and like, make sure they’re getting value and don’t bug them too much because if they’re getting value, maybe they’re, you know, eventually going to pay and you want to keep that user experience great for them.

[00:43:23] But the people who aren’t coming back that you can hit with push notifications, with emails and other things, like if they’re not active, like. Fire away. And, and, uh, Jake Moore talks about this a lot and he did this four years ago, started experimenting with this in his fitness AI app was that he, I think he ended up with like a whole sequence of like six, eight, 10 discount messages where like, if by day three, you hadn’t accepted an offer, it discounts to 50%.

[00:43:50] If by day seven, you haven’t accepted an offer, it discounts to 70%. And then that’s like unit economics. It’s like, at what point is too cheap for the user? In his [00:44:00] app, there was like pretty much no additional cost to serve these additional users. So he’s like, if they’ve been in my app at all, if they’ll pay me a dollar, I want a dollar from them.

[00:44:09] And so he would just discount, discount, discount. And so, but those are the people you can bug is that people who aren’t going to ever come back to your, your app anyway, offer as many times as, as works, do a steep a discount as makes sense for your unit economics. And then also for the, the experience of it.

[00:44:28] Hannah Parvaz: I was going to say, some of these things are so simple and some of the biggest companies in the world are not doing them. Netflix, I canceled my Netflix subscription about a year ago and I didn’t receive one email. You know, I got like your subscriptions confirmed, but that was it. You know, I went back and checked actually, and there was nothing.

[00:44:47] And so these are simple things to do, but not everyone is doing them. So there’s still opportunity here. Uh, and yeah, it’s, you know, after those first three days, this is, this is prime time and on top of that, [00:45:00] one of the, one stat to share is at one of my companies, when we were going through another benchmarking session, we found out that the average consolation time.

[00:45:08] Of a user was on day 280 of their year long life cycle. So around day 280, for some reason, other than kind of day one and just before the end, this was where the majority of people were canceling. And so that meant then we were able to look at, okay, how are we making sure people are activated around this time?

[00:45:27] How can we make sure that then we’re continuing their, their life cycle, renewing, making sure that they’re receiving value around this time. So we would start building pools of audiences and targeting them. Uh, around then as well, day 218. So 

[00:45:41] Steve P. Young: I love that. And I don’t think, I don’t know if calm is a smart, but what calm did was they sent me an email roughly around the same time, my yearly.

[00:45:48] Subscription was about to cancel or not cancel, but I had an active and they sent me an email saying, Hey, 50 percent off our lifetime offer end up buying it was a seven day sale last day. I bought on the last [00:46:00] day, I think I bought on day eight, but anyways, I don’t even use the app anymore. But you know, when people talk about like devaluing the app, you’re not deval in my opinion, I think you’re devaluing your app by not getting people to pay for it.

[00:46:11] If you. Trust that you built a great product, get people to pay for it. You deserve it. 

[00:46:15] Hannah Parvaz: And on top of that, the, this first impression is so important that people who don’t get beyond that don’t actually get to see the value, you know, 80 percent I’ve seen of trial, the trials taken out happen within the first two minutes of someone downloading your product.

[00:46:31] 80 percent happened in the first two minutes. And so, you know, what’s happening with everyone else then? You know, those ones that take out the trial in the first two minutes are going to be less likely to convert than the ones that take out after the first two minutes, but the number of people is so much vaster that it only makes sense to continue asking in that beginning, in that onboarding as well, but people are just not seeing that getting to the value and most apps actually Don’t have this [00:47:00] retention problem that we speak about.

[00:47:01] They have an activation problem. People aren’t getting to that point where we’re seeing any of this value. 

[00:47:07] David Barnard: And this is where the, the lowest hanging fruit is to your point. It’s like, this is where the most users are when they’re first. It’s like 100 percent of people see the first 100 percent of people who open your app, see that first onboarding page and if 2 percent drop and don’t see the second onboarding page and eventually you get to your paywall and maybe only, you know, hopefully, you know, 80, 90 percent of people are seeing your paywall.

[00:47:33] You know, two years in, you’ve had a subscriber and like we’re, like I was saying earlier, you’ve got a thousand subscribers right now and you’re doing a win back at day three to 80. It’s like that can be meaningful, especially for a larger app where the numbers are big, but for a smaller app, especially early in the journey, the, this is where you’re going to see the most low hanging fruit is winning back on those initial trial starts and those initial.

[00:47:58] Opportunities to [00:48:00] convert those users.

[00:48:05] Steve P. Young: I think I take it over. Yeah, yeah, no, take it over.

[00:48:12] All right. Send discounts to child convert cancellations. This is a great strategy. Look, I think discounting. On the onboarding is we’ll have the biggest impact regardless. Right. If you discount during the onboarding, the stats say most people who buy by during the onboarding process, they, like Hannah said, they activate a trial, they cancel right away, right away, bull by, by during that first time user experience.

[00:48:35] That’s their hottest. So make sure you try to discount if you do nothing else. If you add discounting, I think it will move, make a huge difference in your bottom line. But this one, I want to show you some studies. So like send discounts to trial cancellations. Here’s one app that I took the, I know what the app, if you guys want to know privately, I’ll tell you, but anyways, they said welcome.

[00:48:54] And literally like two minutes later, they said, save 20 percent off our pro. And I knew like this. It takes them [00:49:00] to the web flow. So I download the app. I signed up for the app and then they said, welcome, here’s your discount right away. And that’s what I mean. Send them a discount because you do want to, you’re going to lose them eventually.

[00:49:09] Right? You have a small window of time to try to get them to convert because they’re going to stop caring about it. All right. Here’s a friend of mine, Masood. Here’s what he did when people canceled the trial. So like Hannah said, if you cancel the trial, you can show it in app event or in app messaging.

[00:49:24] You can also send them a push. And so he sent them a push to come back and say, well, put the app and say 50 percent off. And then boom has that. And then that was making some money for him. I love this paywall. And I think this paywall would work with the, the cancel stuff that you’re talking about, David.

[00:49:40] So this is a paywall that they use on the discounting and secret offer on logged. And it says, Hey, you know, you can save 66 percent off right now. And it feels very secretive if you can only show it in the right spots too. So I think these are no brainer. Things to do. If I had to pick one, I would still pick the [00:50:00] discounting during the onboarding as the number one thing where we’ve seen the best results.

[00:50:04] Here’s another, 

[00:50:05] David Barnard: and one more, one more interjection real quick, Steve, because I was going to say this before, but, um, if you are worried about, um, if you’re worried about devaluing your product and, and then especially like getting somebody who’s only paying you 20 a year for the next decade, you can even use a promotional offer where it’s.

[00:50:23] 80 percent off the first year or, and you can, I believe you can even set dollar amount. So like, like if your subscription is normally 60 annually and you want to go really crazy and just say 5 for the first year, but then it renews at that 60 a year. Like that’s one way to not like devalue your product.

[00:50:42] It’s like, Hey, we want you to experience a value. And if you’re confident, once they’re experiencing the value that it’s going to actually be worth that 60, use a promotional offer where the next year renews at a higher rate. Like Apple and Google have both given us as developers tools to do that kind of stuff.

[00:50:58] Hannah Parvaz: And this is something that’s becoming more and [00:51:00] more common as well. You know, this wasn’t as typical. I mean, promotional offers have only been around for the last kind of four years or so. Uh, but before that, anyway, you were only able to kind of have a fixed price, which is why when you go into your subscription settings, you’ll see like 400 different prices sometimes for apps and decide how much you want to pay for it.

[00:51:21] But since then, you know, we’ve had these subscription offers and what I’ve seen A lot of companies talk about how high their conversion is, but they don’t talk about their retention because a lot of them, what they’ll do is they’ll have this very long onboarding flow. And then it will be like, no, you’ve got to pay 1 to be able to see the answer to your survey.

[00:51:40] You know, I went through one myself, uh, for this. I was like, my friend had been talking to me about color matching and I only wear black, so I don’t know what colors match me, but I was like, let me go find out. And I found an app. I went through and the, I don’t know, the onboarding flow must have taken me about nine hours.

[00:51:59] And then [00:52:00] it told me, you know, you have to pay 1 to see your answer. And I was like, okay, I’ll just pay my dollar, you know, and then I paid my dollar and it didn’t even tell me. And I’m like immediately cancel. So anyway, this is to say a lot of products are now having this kind of pay, pay 1. You’ll see this a lot on kind of web flows as well.

[00:52:18] There’s a lot of companies that are now doing web to app. Ads, so they will go and take you through this long onboarding flow on web and then ask you to pay for something at the end of it. But they’ll have a lot of the time, not as high conversion to, to their next billing period. Um, but yeah, anyway, that is to say, just make sure that your product is actually backing it up, you know, is your product actually delivering.

[00:52:40] Uh, and that’s really kind of the most important part of all of this. Is your product good? Uh, and bringing people back and actually executing what, what people are wanting to execute with it. Back to you. All right, Steve. 

[00:52:53] David Barnard: Yeah. Take it, take it away, Steve. I know you have a few more slides and we’ll get to the Q and A.

[00:52:58] Steve P. Young: My son’s texting [00:53:00] me cause I have screen time on him. He’s like, I need access to websites. Please turn off screen time. So I’m going to turn it off. All right. So here’s the last one. I really liked this flow. Cause you’re sort of guiding the user all the way through. So this is an app that I don’t know if they want to be known for doing this.

[00:53:17] So I’m not sharing what the app is, but personally got to work with him anyways. It’s in the settings, in the settings of your app, you, he has this unsubscribe or cancel, and then he’s like, do you want to, yes, well, give them a discount to try to win it back. And then if you say, no, I want to lose my discounts.

[00:53:36] They do ask you why. And then once you hit unsubscribe, they take you immediately to the app store subscription page. So I really liked that funnel because they’re sort of guiding the user. Obviously people know you can go straight into it, but for those who don’t know. They’re guiding them straight into that, the, that funnel, and then trying to get feedback at the same time right here while trying to win them back.

[00:53:56] I think that was it for me. Oh yeah. Here’s another one that I, so when I [00:54:00] was teasing with the discounting, here’s one thing that we’re testing within our app right now. And then the early results show that this is winning, but it’s the pay what you want model. So we have this gift for you. Like, I’m not just saying it.

[00:54:13] I’m applying these same strategies myself in our own app. We have this little gift for you. Half the users are getting a straight 50 percent off this one with no options. And then the other half are getting a pay what you want offer. And so we have this offer where it gives you the 50 percent off. You can slide it and get a little bit better offer, or you can just pay the seven day.

[00:54:32] Free trial one. And this one is winning because you know, you know, Jake Moore says this too, but, and I know Revenue Cat, you guys have talked about this, like three plans better than two, two plans better than one. And so we’re trying to give them the option, make them feel like they’re in control. And we’re seeing pretty good results with Letting them decide what they want to pay.

[00:54:51] Although they’re not technically deciding everything. 

[00:54:55] David Barnard: Very cool. 

Q&A

[00:54:57] David Barnard: All right. Well, let’s, uh, let’s get to Q and a, so we have five more [00:55:00] minutes for Q and a, but, um, I talked to Steve and Hannah ahead of time and w we can go over a little bit, so let’s, uh, we’ll go through the questions as I mentioned in the order of most voted.

[00:55:12] So I’m going to pull that up and look at the upvotes. So the first question, eight upvotes. That’s a lot. Um, how many downloads per day and conversions to paid users per week or month? Should you have before starting to think about win back campaigns? It’s a good way because we’ve kind of been, um, you know, talking about this throughout the whole presentation.

[00:55:32] Um, Steve, I’ll go with you first. So what are your thoughts? Like when does it make sense? And maybe you can like go through the phases because maybe it’s like everybody should be doing those like trial cancellation win backs, but then maybe There is a threshold before you build out a whole CRM where you’re sending emails to subscribers who turned a year in or whatever.

[00:55:56] So yeah. What are your thoughts? 

[00:55:58] Steve P. Young: Yeah. And Hannah, you jump in [00:56:00] after this, I think immediately, like, I know there’s been a few other questions. When do you want to do it? When do you prioritize it versus acquiring new users immediately? That’s what I would do. I just think I’m more, and maybe I’m, I rather you, in my opinion, my humble opinion, I rather you monetization standpoint.

[00:56:19] Versus being less aggressive. The data just pans out. They don’t care about you as much as you think they care about you. You built a great app, but they don’t honestly think that either. So like trying to get them to convert immediately is almost like do it right away. I don’t care. Like literally we build discounts flows as an MVP, just to see what we can do.

[00:56:39] And then we could play around with the prices, things like that. Because if we see high churn trial. Too paid being really low. That’s probably a price issue that we need to figure out. Not a value issue, but so anyways, I would say immediately and then the, and I can get into the more sophisticated stuff.

[00:56:56] David Barnard: Yeah. Well, maybe then Hannah, when do you, when do you think. [00:57:00] Like more sophisticated CRM stuff comes into play. Like somebody has been a subscriber and you want to win them back to subscriber. Like, and I guess, you know, we’ve kind of been talking about those numbers. It’s like, if you have a thousand subscribers, um, and you’re trying to win back subscribers who have previously been subscribed and the best in the industry are doing 30%, then like, okay, maybe out of those thousand subscribers, you’re going to win back 300.

[00:57:26] So then it’s kind of a equation at that point.

[00:57:33] Hannah Parvaz: Oh, David’s sound dropped out for me, but hopefully you can hear me and I’ll just hope you can, can you hear me? All right. I can’t hear you guys. I’m just kidding. 

[00:57:42] Steve P. Young: I just like to give you, I heard everything. 

[00:57:45] Hannah Parvaz: I can hear you now. I heard 

[00:57:46] Steve P. Young: everything. 

[00:57:48] Hannah Parvaz: Okay. So what I would say really is where is your biggest opportunity?

[00:57:53] At the moment, you know, obviously we want to be able to do everything all at the same time But sometimes there are going to [00:58:00] be things which are going to be bigger opportunities than others and starting with win backs You know, obviously we should be thinking in the right way, right from the beginning, you know, setting up the things that we’re doing in a way that is to foster conversion to monetize.

[00:58:16] But, you know, you might not think, okay, I’m going to build in all of these kind of deep flow retention, win back models, like right from day one, because that won’t be your priority, you know, optimizing your onboarding. To make sure that you’re like Steve was showing, showing these discount offers after your initial paywall, some of these things will be a higher priority than something that’s a deep CRM.

[00:58:37] Some of the companies that we’ve worked with have started with very, very simple CRM and then identified, okay, now we’ve gotten a really good place with acquisition. You know, we’re actually days are profitable with acquisition, but how can we now make sure people are continuing to come back? How can we eke out a little bit more of that?

[00:58:54] So then CRM becomes a priority because we’ve identified that now with one of our companies, we were getting. [00:59:00] I mean, their cost per trials for a 60 subscription product was like 6, 7, and so we were acquiring really well, but what we’ve noticed now is there’s, there are people counseling, we’re getting loads and loads of installs.

[00:59:12] So now we’re working on CRM, you know, we just jump between like, what is our biggest priority at the moment? Where’s our biggest area of opportunity? You know, what is the lever? That if we lean on this, if we push on this hard, we’ll have the biggest impact on our North star metric, which is going to be ultimately, you know, your North star metric is going to be related to revenue.

[00:59:32] So sometimes that will be windbacks. After we had the benchmarking session I mentioned at the beginning, and we saw that we were, we were only winning back 6 percent and others in our peer group were winning back 35 percent that then became, you know, there is a big opportunity here. We’re losing out on a lot of people.

[00:59:48] And. Increasing that was a very kind of low hanging fruit way of, of increasing our revenue. So I would always say, go after low hanging fruit first. What’s the least effort thing that you can [01:00:00] do to have the highest impact. And at some point that will be, that will be getting deeper and deeper into your funnel basically.

[01:00:06] David Barnard: Yeah, I think that’s a great answer. And then the second question was actually very similar. So I think we’ll, we’ll kind of skip over it. Um, but I’ll read the question and then give a quick thing and then we’ll move on. But for earlier stage app, when do you prioritize win back campaigns versus acquisition and retention?

[01:00:22] And yeah, I think we kind of already answered that, but, um, But the answer there is like, you know, like Hannah was saying, I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s a math equation. Like, you know, how many users do you have coming in? And then what are the opportunities? And, and as we’ve been saying that the highest opportunity is in those very early stages.

[01:00:41] And so that’s probably where you’re going to want to focus. Um, all right. The next question is also from Aaron. Um, what if they close the whole app when they see the hard paywall? That’s, that’s a great question. Um, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll take off with this one and then, [01:01:00] uh, both of y’all can jump in. Um, this is actually exactly what I’m doing in my weather app.

[01:01:05] So I have a hard paywall. Um, uh, our trial start rate has been fluctuating depending on the source of traffic, but our trial start rates, the max trial start rate we’ve seen is in the like 40 percent range, which is actually really good, but it was because we had really high intent traffic. Um, but it’s kind of settled back down in the like.

[01:01:27] I think 10 to 20 percent trial start rate, which is, is like, if 80 percent of people who go through the hassle of downloading my app and opening it aren’t even starting a free trial, like that’s a low hanging fruit kind of opportunity. And so this is exactly what I’m doing in my weather app is that when people don’t start the free trial and they just close the app, we’re, we’re actually just doing a local push notification because it’s easy.

[01:01:51] It’s cheap. It doesn’t require sophisticated infrastructure. It doesn’t require setting up CRM or campaigns or anything like that. All we’re doing is when you close the app [01:02:00] without having started a free trial on our hard pay wall, it pops up a local notification that says, Hey, you know, I forget exactly the wording, but it’s like, uh, you know, limited time offer, um, uh, you know, use the app free for seven days.

[01:02:14] Um, and so it’s, that’s a great way to. Uh, to get people back is like sending those offers immediately. Uh, especially if you don’t have push notification access, you still can send that first, like local notification. Um, Steve, it looks like you have some additional kind of nuance and some examples here. 

[01:02:34] Steve P. Young: No, this is exactly what you’re talking about.

[01:02:36] Right. David zero is a hard pay wall. This is what you alluded to this too, where you can give a one month, 399. I’ve always wanted to test this 399 for the first month, but then renews at the year. Or you can do the seven day free trial for the yearly. And then, as you can see, here’s what I like to do, 8 47 PM, close to my bedtime, five minutes later, I get an, I get a push notification saying, Hey, you can [01:03:00] start using Xero for free.

[01:03:01] No subscription required. Just open the app. And wouldn’t you know it. So when you tap on that push notification, you get this little paywall, the X magically appears, and then you can hit that X and start using the app for free that I just want to give you visuals of what Dave was talking to. 

[01:03:17] Hannah Parvaz: Yeah, absolutely.

[01:03:18] And one of the things that we we’ve done similar in the past for the audio journalism app straight away If someone didn’t take out the trial We would send them a push notification saying, you know You’ve got 10 free stories to listen to that would then go through and allow unlock the ability to start listening We did 10 because 6 was our activation point.

[01:03:37] So, you know at 10 You know, someone has blasted through that activation point. We would then give them countdowns. You’ve got nine left, you’ve got eight left. And then, you know, you’re limited in the things that you can do if you haven’t collected any kind of other first party data beyond these kind of silent push notifications that just go to the notification center.

[01:03:55] But the other thing that you can do, especially if you’re a growing product is you can hack [01:04:00] retargeting a little bit on ads. So what you can do is create an audience of people who have Opened your app, but not done any of the kind of further steps and then do a link click campaign. So you can optimize it for really high up the funnel.

[01:04:13] And because it’s such a targeted audience, you’re going to get very cheap clicks, you know, in the kind of 20, 30 cents mark usually. And then this is going to bring people back into your app because hopefully you’ve got a deep link that then where someone. Clicks on the ads that deep links back into, into the product.

[01:04:30] So we’ve seen some really good successes here. Retargeting is a little bit harder now, obviously, because of all the fun things our friends at Apple did in 2021, but this is a kind of good hacky way to be able to do that. And because it’s a top of funnel, um, optimization point, it’s usually quite a cheap thing to get going.

[01:04:49] Steve P. Young: And how many do you need to upload an email list or is that all? Everything you’re seeing all through the Facebook ads platform. 

[01:04:56] Hannah Parvaz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. As long as you’re posting back that data. So Facebook ads [01:05:00] will, or whatever it’s called now, we’ll be able to see the, that there is the, you know, the app install has been triggered and then, you know, from your MMP, you’ll be sending back kind of all media sources anyway, and that includes organic.

[01:05:13] And so from that point of view, then you can create an audience, which then excludes people who’ve done a registration, for example. Very 

[01:05:23] David Barnard: cool. All right. Next question is from Michael. What do you think about zero cost? No credit card require free required free trials for app subscriptions. Are there downsides based on consumer behavior to have a zero friction trial?

[01:05:41] Um, I’ll, I’ll start again on this one, uh, because this is exactly what I’m doing with my hard paywall and giving seven days completely free. My thought in implementing this is that the hard paywall, we’re collecting the low hanging fruit of people who are willing to do the auto [01:06:00] renewing trial. Because, and again, there are so many consumers that are very familiar with this pattern now, where they.

[01:06:06] Start a free trial. They immediately go cancel. And so you, I think most apps should probably start with a auto renewing free trial because enough people are going to do that. And then it is going to auto renew and it’s a, just a simple. Um, flow is the happy flow. It’s the easy flow. Um, and I’ve even heard from apps who’ve, who’ve had that like zero, the non renewing trial, and when they switched to a renewing trial, they made way more money.

[01:06:37] But then, and this is what I’m doing is like, okay, we have the hard pay. Well, we have the auto renewing free trial. If they. Opt out of that is when we offer them seven days non renewing and you know, it’s an experiment. I mean, we’ll see how it goes, but the idea there is like, if you’re really delivering value and, and again, it’s like, if they’ve downloaded my weather app, like there’s some, something they saw in it that [01:07:00] they liked if they get a week into using it.

[01:07:02] Cause we’re only giving, we’re still only giving them seven days free. And then it starts locking down the features that they can use. Like, then are they going to pay? I don’t know. Um, ideally it’s going to be a high percentage, but, but whatever percentage it is, it’s like, those are customers we’re not capturing now anyway.

[01:07:20] And so it’s just another opportunity to catch some of those early funnel people who already said they’re not willing to start an auto renewing free trial. 

[01:07:30] Hannah Parvaz: Can I go? One of the things that we’ve done in the past as well with this, uh, for one of our products, um, we started experimenting this and then rolled it out on lots of others was have that gated trial up front, you know, have it, but then when someone decides to Misses it.

[01:07:47] Then we had a cute little modal that appeared that then said, we’ve got a gift for you, you know, here’s a surprise. Now you get an ungated trial. So we usually call them a gated trial and an ungated trial. So an ungated trial requires no [01:08:00] credit card. It just basically changes the authority. Like the authentication level that you have and unlocks all of the features.

[01:08:06] So that was something that we did that we saw really good success with we had a very high kind of trial opt in Anyway, and we had a good conversion But this then helped to capture people who hadn’t managed to do hadn’t managed hadn’t wanted to do that And on top of that then whenever it got to the end of that period what we did then was ask them to opt out You know, they would have to say yes, I want to decrease My, yeah, I want less access.

[01:08:30] I want to get rid of unlimited access and then they would have to kind of decide that actively. So then from that paywall, you know, from the opt out paywall, we saw really good conversion from this as well. 

[01:08:42] David Barnard: Very cool. Steve, anything to add, or you want to jump to the next question? All 

[01:08:45] right, go 

[01:08:46] David Barnard: ahead. Um, we’re going to take.

[01:08:48] Two more questions because I don’t want this webinar to go on for hours. So, um, I’m going to take the next, uh, question in, in the vote. And while we’re answering this question, if you see any questions you really [01:09:00] want answered, go ahead and upvote, upvote, upvote, um, So the next highest upvoted question, um, is most wind back campaigns involve discounts.

[01:09:12] Aren’t these devaluing your product value? And aren’t they also teaching the user to wait for discounts rather than converting? If you marinate them, I love that word. If you marinate them enough, they’re a threat. Solid, uh, CRM strategy. Um, great question. I mean, we kind of already discussed this, but I’d love to maybe go a little deeper, like on that idea of like devaluing your product, Steve, why don’t you, why don’t you kick us off?

[01:09:37] Cause this is something I know you think a lot about. 

[01:09:40] Steve P. Young: I’ll keep it short. No, no, go ahead. And you take it away. We have 

[01:09:45] Hannah Parvaz: to think about just how we’re doing it, really, you know, with some, I think we have to think about also how are other products behaving and what are other products training people to do?

[01:09:57] So, you know, a lot of products will be doing this, this [01:10:00] discounting thing. That’s just how it is now. So you might decide that you never, you’re, you’re the economist and you might never want to do a discount, you know, or once a year you do get the Dis the economist from a dollar a month or something like that, you know, and it’s a it’s a time bound thing But I would say even if you’re not doing discounts regularly, you know, or as a part of your onboarding flow Then you should be thinking about how can we leverage discounts at other times of the year?

[01:10:26] You know that might be in january because your health product, you know, then you can center a campaign around this But really what we want to do is think about how are we? Not leaving money on the table, you know, how can we keep our business going? And really that’s it. Do we want to keep our business going or not?

[01:10:43] Because if we don’t, then we probably don’t need to offer discounts. 

[01:10:48] David Barnard: And I’ll, I’ll say too. Um, I’ve been surprised at how much some of these big, like household name, great brand apps do discounting. [01:11:00] So, um, I’m not an active all trails user, but I. Downloaded it multiple times over the years signed up and I regularly get emails from them offering 50 percent off 30 percent off and sometimes they’ll tie it to, um, Hey, it’s the summer.

[01:11:16] It’s hiking season. The weather’s turning nice. 50 percent off to start your subscription. Sometimes it’s a black Friday offer. Um, but even some of these biggest apps in the world, I mean, all trails, I think now is doing, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. Last I checked on app figures, um, and then we don’t even know, you know, how much they’re making on the web.

[01:11:36] So they’re probably, you know, two, 300 million a year app, which is insane. And like, you know, one of the probably top. A hundred apps in the industry and they do a ton of discounting. So if, if a big kind of household great brand kind of name, like all trails can do it and to Hannah’s point though, it’s like, I think they do it very, in a very classy way, I mean, maybe, maybe, you know, for your brand, you [01:12:00] don’t want to have these like super aggressive, you know, 30 percent discount, they hit X and then 50 percent discount, they hit X and then 80 percent discount.

[01:12:07] Like maybe that feels a little cheap for some brands for me. Like, I’m not trying to be all trails, like. I want to just make my app successful. So I may be a little less sensitive to like the, the, the, like, you know, brand aspect of that. But even all trails, I think can does it in a, in a classy way where it’s not that discounts devalue your product.

[01:12:29] It’s how you do it can maybe create the perception of, of devaluing your product more so than offering discounts. I mean, everybody offers this kind of black, the whole black Friday thing is like. Every big brand Apple for the longest time didn’t do it. And if you notice in the last like five years, they’re doing back to school.

[01:12:46] Actually, they’ve done back to school promotions forever, but only allowed students. Um, but now I, I see on nine to five Mac all the time, like AirPods at the lowest price ever on Amazon. And, you know, get a Mac book for [01:13:00] 500 off. It’s like, if Apple is doing it, you can do it. It’s, it’s going to be okay. 

[01:13:05] Hannah Parvaz: It’s just all about how it’s done.

[01:13:07] You know, I downloaded the team you up recently. I don’t know if you guys have ever downloaded that. Have you, have you tried it out? David, okay. Download it after this and just tell me, because that was an experience product and seeing like, spin this, spin this pot of gold, this kind of offer, this kind of offer, you know, I just was like trying to look at the app to see, okay, what’s going on here.

[01:13:30] And it took me about five minutes to try and even look at it because it was just pop up after pop up after pop up. And. Yeah, I did buy beads for friendship bracelets, so I did do my sale, but, you know, it wasn’t because of, you know, I was getting 90 percent off because I spun a wheel. I actually got in the way of everything.

[01:13:50] I started recording halfway through because I was like, how long is this going to go on for? And then every single time you open the app again, it’s just 10 more discounts that are like, you’ve got nine minutes to [01:14:00] use this, you know, it’s just ultimate kind of scarcity, scarcity, use this now, use this now, and you don’t need to be that extreme, you know, that does damage your brand if you’re, if you’re thinking about it from that perspective, but you can do it in a very kind of nice, tasteful way as well.

[01:14:17] David Barnard: Very cool. All right. Uh, we’ll get to the last question here. This has been a lot of fun. And, uh, you two, you two are a lot of fun. We’ve both done a podcast together. I know you two have done a podcast and a live webinars together. Um, so this was fun. I’m kind of kind of sad to be taking the last question here.

[01:14:37] Um, the last question I’m seeing most up voted is. I mean, this is a good one. We’ve, we’ve kind of talked about this, but we can kind of give the last, um, the last take when is the best time to send a wind back offer, Steve, you’ve been kind of quiet in the Q and a go for it. [01:15:00] 

[01:15:01] Steve P. Young: You guys are covering it. I don’t need to talk all the time.

[01:15:04] I honestly think it’s during the onboarding. That’s my personal opinion. I would just do it right on onboarding on the homepage and try to. Do it. I mean, like Hannah said, the messaging is so key that one of the paywalls that I saw where they’re doing discount is like, Hey, our users work out three times a week and follow the food system lose up to 40%.

[01:15:24] We want to achieve your weight loss goals. And here’s why we’re offering you 25%. Oh, I would do it almost immediately. And that’s where we’ve seen. If you’re looking for something that’s going to move the needle immediately. That’s what I would do personally. 

[01:15:40] David Barnard: Hannah, what are 

[01:15:41] Steve P. Young: your thoughts? Are 

[01:15:42] Hannah Parvaz: you ASMRing me?

[01:15:44] I, I would say that that is objectively the correct answer. However, what we need to do is also look at where is our biggest area of opportunity and our biggest area of opportunity might not be in the, in the onboarding right now, [01:16:00] we might be performing really well and it might be, might be later on, you know, after someone has managed to experience a bit more of the product.

[01:16:07] So I would be looking at. You know, every single screen of my journey, looking at how are people engaging with my main function, you know, whether that’s listening to something or measuring something or whatever it is, how many times does someone need to do that and looking at what the drop offs are and then centering my wind backs around.

[01:16:27] Around this, um, as well, but yeah, to get started in the onboarding as early as possible, send out push notifications, be tasteful, but start early and start often. 

[01:16:38] David Barnard: Yeah. And then to, to my point earlier about, you know, the, the, the term windback being, uh, uh, a broad term and, and, and then to Hannah’s point about.

[01:16:50] Looking for those moments of opportunity, maybe your best quote unquote, win back opportunity is to move the paywall [01:17:00] earlier in your experience. So, I mean, that’s like the very first place to look is like how many people, I mean, again, you know, Jake Moore and Steve and all of us have been talking about this a lot the last few years, how many people are even seeing your paywall?

[01:17:15] And if only 30 percent of the people. Of people are even ever seeing your paywall, then your best, like win back opportunity is maybe just to put that paywall sooner. Um, and so, so it’s not even necessarily offering a discount or traditionally thinking of win back, but it’s like creating a monetization opportunity where there wasn’t previously a monetization opportunity.

[01:17:38] And then that’s just the math equation. Like how many people are seeing. It’s and so if they are seeing your paywall and you know, 90 percent of people are seeing your paywall and um, 90 percent of those people who see your paywall are exiting out. Well, that’s a, that’s a lot of people who get to see your wind back.

[01:17:59] If you put the [01:18:00] wind back way deeper and only 10 percent of people are seeing the wind back. Well, if you have a 10 percent conversion on 10 percent of your audience, that’s much lower than if you have a 10 percent conversion on 90%. Uh, well, 90 percent of 90, whatever that is, like 81 percent of your audience.

[01:18:16] And so that, that’s kind of part of how to look at it is, is like part of looking at the wind back opportunity is how many people are going to see it. And, and the more people you can get to see it, the higher, the likelihood of, of conversion. But again, to Anna’s point, it’s like, if you want, freemium app and, and, and people are sticking around and staying engaged with the app, then It’s a 50 percent of people who’ve stayed engaged.

[01:18:43] You’re going to have a higher conversion at that point because they’re engaged than if you do show it immediately. And so it’s, it’s also product dependent, but, but broadly it’s a game of numbers. It’s like, what’s your conversion rate and how many people are seeing it. And so you either want to [01:19:00] maximize for that conversion, the moment of.

[01:19:04] showing it for conversion rate and, or the number of people. And if you’re showing it early and having very low conversion rate, try it later and see if you can increase that conversion rate and see if the math nuts out. 

[01:19:15] Hannah Parvaz: Yeah, it’s a game of numbers and it’s a game of experiments, you know, test all of these things, you know, we’ve told you guys a lot of different options, a lot of different things that you can test, but now it’s really up to you to, to To go in and start implementing them and seeing which things work for you.

[01:19:31] Uh, so yeah, it’s experiments, experiments, experiments, and just really try and get the reps in with this testing, with this experimenting, with how you’re running them, with reaching statistical significance, because you have to start somewhere. 

[01:19:43] David Barnard: Yep. I think that’s a great place to end. So we’ve talked about a lot of things.

[01:19:47] Go do it. 

[01:19:49] Steve P. Young: David, what’s the new feature? What’s the feature? People have asked for it in the comments. Are you going to talk about it? The Revenue Cat feature? Uh, I don’t know if 

[01:19:58] David Barnard: I’m authorized to [01:20:00] talk about it. I’ll drop it in at this very last, by the time this is on YouTube, we’ll probably have announced the beta.

[01:20:04] Um, it’s actually the, the cancellation flow that you showed. So we’re going to make it dead simple for, um, Revenue Cat customers to have a button that says, manage my subscription. And then that will show a page where you can ask questions, you can offer discounts and then take them to the Apple page versus like having a managed subscription button that takes them right to the Apple page.

[01:20:27] Um, so it’s going to be very configurable where you can, you know, ask different questions, uh, make different offers. So it’s going to be kind of a cancellation flow, automated cancellation flow. That’s super easy to drop into your app. Yeah. A little teaser there. Uh, I don’t know exactly when that’s going to be a beta, but very soon we might edit this part out of the YouTube video, depending on when that happens.

[01:20:54] I’m blaming Steve. Anybody who’s listening to this, who didn’t want me to tease the [01:21:00] feature. Um, It’s Steve’s fault. Uh, but I mean, it’s, it’s really fun working at revenue cat cause we’re just, we’re, we’re getting to build more and more of these things. Like we’re, I mean, this is what I do on the podcast. So we talk to experts, we hear what experts are saying is going to work.

[01:21:16] And then we go make it easier for developers to do that. And so we actually have a lot of really cool stuff that we’re working on for this fall. Um, stuff like that of like, it’s going to help you win back users, help you convert more users, like build better paywalls, like all those kinds of things. So, um, So yeah, and then, uh, last thing as we wrap up and Steve kind of alluded to this as well, Hannah, Steve, and I will all be live in person in San Francisco on the 25th for Revenue Cats first annual app growth annual.

[01:21:45] So, um, if you have not seen those announcements yet and applied to attend in person, uh, go to appgrowthannual. com. Um, well, Hannah, I think, uh, we still need to determine, but Hannah’s doing a workshop. Steve’s doing a workshop on ASO. Um, we [01:22:00] have some really great speakers. Uh, Tammy from the Google play team is going to be talking about monetization around the world.

[01:22:07] Uh, Nikita beer, uh, signed on. He’s going to do some unconventional, um, user acquisition tactics, uh, which he’s very famous for having sold apps to, uh, Facebook and, um, Discord and had, uh, I think two or three apps and then a bunch of apps. He advises, uh, get to number one on the app store. Um, we’re also going to have Phil Carter talking about the, um, subscription app value loop.

[01:22:32] Um, that’s going to be kind of the keynote kicking off and kind of the theme of the conference is that those pillars of his subscription value loop. Uh, so yeah, a really cool event for those who, uh, can’t attend in person or don’t get selected. The spots are very limited. So, um, don’t, don’t be offended if you don’t get selected.

[01:22:48] Don’t get selected for live attendance, but we will be streaming a lot of the sessions. Um, so, uh, definitely register for the online event as well. Um, but with that, thank you, Steve. Thank you, Hannah. [01:23:00] As I said, this was so fun. Uh, the two of you are a blast to chat with, and it was really fun to, uh, to host this with the two of you and look forward to seeing you in a month in San Francisco.

[01:23:09] Hannah Parvaz: Nice. See you in a month. And thank you for having us. 

[01:23:14] David Barnard: Bye.